Q&A: Coaching great John Wooden talks about his experiences, feelings and visions for college basketball
By Brent Boyd
Daily Bruin Staff
When the name "John Wooden" is spoken, one thinks of dominating basketball and an incomprehensible string of national championships.
He is known simply as the "Wizard of Westwood," and is widely considered to be the greatest basketball coach of all time.
Yet, he is so much more than a coach - he is also a writer, a teacher and a philosopher.
In a two-part interview, Coach Wooden shared his views on a wide spectrum of issues ranging from the changing state of college basketball to his lasting legacy at UCLA, as well as his inspiring secrets for success - both on and off the court.
Mr. Wooden, your coaching philosophy was very unique, and apparently a very successful, coaching philosophy. In a nutshell, can you tell UCLA exactly what that was?
First of all, I never talked to my players about winning in the general sense that most people consider winning. My whole philosophy is based on trying to get them to never think about their opponent, just think about themselves. I say never compare.
It is impossible to compare accurately and validly so just concentrate on improving yourself day by day. You do it in great leaps and bounds, but just try to do a little bit everyday and if you do that every day, just a little bit, a little bit, and a little bit, it eventually adds up to a considerable amount.
My definition for success is peace of mind is achieved only by self-satisfaction of knowing that you made the best effort of which you are capable of. Everybody is equal in that respect - no one is better than you are in terms of making the best effort of which are capable of. We're not equal as far as size, or appearance or other ways, but we are all equal in terms of having the opportunity of making the best with what we have. That was my whole philosophy in trying to get that idea across.
Your pyramid of success is well known around the UCLA campus and the college basketball community. Tell me, how did you develop it and do you still stand by it?
I do indeed stand by it, yes. I've never liked the idea that a person's success can be measured by the mark they make in the classroom, or the number of points they score in a basketball game. I think only the individual knows whether or not they made the effort of which they are capable.
I love poetry, and I had verse that said, "At God's footstool to confess a poor soul knelt and bowed his head, 'I failed he cried,' the master said 'Thou did thy best that is success.'"
That made an impression on me, and I thought about that when I coined my definition of success. But, my development of the pyramid resulted because some parents of some of my students in my English class - if they didn't get an ‘A’ or ‘B’ - thought either my students failed or that the teacher failed.
Now, not everyone can earn an 'A' or a 'B.' And I had youngsters who didn't get an ‘A’ or a ‘B’ who I thought did very well, maybe as well as some youngsters who received an ‘A’ or a ‘B’. So then I began thinking of something, and I knew how they judge athletic teams - if you win them all, you are considered to be reasonably successful.
After coining the definition, it didn't seem to be getting the desirable results that I had hoped for - either from myself individually or from those under my supervision. I tried to analyze that and determine why, and I finally decided it is because it was something you couldn't see so I wanted to get something you can see and gradually I came up with the idea of the pyramid.
I started out with the cornerstones and never changed that - work hard and love what you're doing. One is industrialism and the other is enthusiasm. Don't worry about what others think, just you make the best of what you have.
In fact, your reputation and character are two things that define you - your reputation is what others perceive you to be, and your character is what you really are. You are the only one who really knows what your character is. Now, that is just in general, I can talk an hour on the pyramid.
Basketball has undergone a tremendous amount of change - both in the style of play and the rules of the game - since you last coached. If you could change one thing about the college game today what would it be?
You'd be surprised at what I might say. If I could change just one thing, It might be to abolish the dunk.
It's the most exciting thing as far as fans are concerned - fans roar when there's a dunk. And yet, they make a real good play, like a screen-and-roll or a nice cut or give-and-go, where there is teamwork involved and you'll get a smattering of applause.
I think there's too much showmanship today. We talked about change, there's far more showmanship, and I don't like showmanship. When I coached, behind the back pass or behind the back dribble, or something excessive in showmanship meant you went to the bench. I think that, to me, has hurt the game. This is just an opinion now; it doesn't mean its fact.
With the prevalence of all-sports television and radio stations, as well as electronic media and other such outlets, media pressure nowadays is incredibly intense. Was it that intense when you coached at UCLA?
It is the same, but I don't think it amounts to a hill of beans. If the coach permits the media or the alumni, or the parents, or any outside thing from that point to bother him in any way that's a weakness.
There's only one type of pressure that's important, it's the pressure that you put on yourself. I don't care what you're doing - whether it's your job or some other job, or a dentist, or a surgeon, or a groundskeeper or whatever, it doesn't matter - the pressure you put on yourself is the only thing that really matters.
What about the differences in recruiting? I think it's changed in the fact that they're going to a farther field to recruit. We've had coaches at UCLA that have gone to Czechoslovakia and places all over across the country. I didn't used to do that at all, and not many coaches did either.
Now you see so many California high school players playing back in the Midwest, and they didn't used to do that. If you do a good job you will draw good players from other areas that find out about you. But, in places like Southern California, the population is here and all the activities here. You should just try to keep the ones here that you can and if you do a good job other good ones will come to you.
I never went to New York to visit Lew Alcindor. I never visited players from out-of-state to come here; I wanted them to be interested in us. I don't think they do that anymore.
Is it necessary? Well, I think it would be necessary if you coached in Eugene or Pullman and other places, but I don't think it's necessary in Southern California because the population is so much here and the athleticism of all our youngsters in all sports is just enormous.
Over the past two decades, the style and attitudes of the players as a whole have dramatically changed. It seems that sometimes teamwork has taken a back seat to individual glory, at least much more often than when you coached. Considering that, if you were still in your prime and were given the chance to coach college basketball in modern times, would you do it?
Teaching is the most wonderful profession. The two most important professions in the world are parenting - that's the most important –and teaching. You bet, I would love to teach youngsters and work with them. And I think that if you are fair with them and be consistent with your fairness, you will be fine.
You don't have to treat them all alike, that's being unfair. If you treat them all alike, that's showing prejudice. You have to try to give everyone the treatment they earn and deserve.
If you try to do that and recognize the fact you are imperfect and you're not going to be correct all the time. If you try to give everyone the treatment they earn and you listen to them if they want to be heard, I don't think there would be any more problems than there were in the past.
Now, lets turn a little bit back toward UCLA. How much communication do you have with the Bruin coaches and players?
If they contact me, I'll talk to them. I never want to be put in a position where it could be seen that I was interfering. I have stayed away from basketball banquets for that very reason, and I don't go to practice. The only time I ever go to practice is if some coach asked me to come and give my opinion on something. I have done that in the past years, when I have been invited by the coach specifically to do that. I would never go in to practice voluntarily.
After all these years is Pauley Pavilion still a special place for you?
Yes, it is. I still think Pauley Pavilion is one of the greatest places for the opposing teams of any place I know.
The fans are farther from the floor and that's better for the opposing teams. I wanted the first row of bleachers on the side to be at least 12 feet from the sideline and the ends to be at least 20 feet from the end lines. I had something to do with that and I like that.
I wanted the opposing team's dressing room to be identical to the home team's dressing room, and it was that way when it was built.
I've gone to places where the opposing team was living in luxury and the home team would hang their clothes on nails - things of that sort. I wanted to give treatment to opponents the same treatment our team would receive - just the way I would like to be treated. Some people said I was crazy.
There has been much controversy aroused in the recent shrinking of choice seats in the student section. What is your opinion of that?
I permitted my name to go on the Wooden Center because it was going to be for the students and not just the athletes. In many ways, we do too much for the athletes - in many ways, not always. Primarily it was going to be for students, and I am very proud that activities have gone on in there.
So, obviously I think a lot of students. I think we have interscholastic athletics for the students.
But at the same time, you know the reason they do that? How much money did the women's athletics program make? How about the expenses? It' s a lot. Where are you going to get that money? You're going to get the money from two sports - basketball and football - so the answer to the question is I understand why they have to do it.
You speak of the money, generated by the two main sports. Now, a majority of that comes from television contracts. What kind of influence has television had on college basketball?
To me television is the worst thing that ever happened to collegiate basketball. It interrupts the flow of the game because of extra time outs. It has made actors out of players, coaches and officials to some degree. It has brought about playing games every day of the week, every hour of the day.
A lot of games now are played on Sundays, and it's primarily because of television. I think it's been the worst thing for intercollegiate basketball.
Television may have had a dramatic impact on another part of the college basketball – the NCAA Tournament that started this week. When you coached the NCAA Tournament had, at various times, only 16 or 32 teams. It has since increased to 64 schools. Is this good for the game?
I think it ought to be a tournament of champions. I don't believe, for example, that Arizona should have had an opportunity to win the championship, and they did. I don't think a team that finished fifth in their conference belongs in it.
Now there might have been reasons why it happened - it's a long season and you have injuries and what not. But, I think it should be based on how well you do all season long in the conference. You play a home-and-home game with every team in the conference - those are the ones that you go for.
If you're going to go that far, you may as well let them all in. And all the receipts that will eventually go to the teams that get in, all the receipts from the tournament - TV, radio, sales, everything - should be divided into equal shares, and you get one share for every game you play.
So, half of all the teams in there are going to get one share. Then the half that's left gets two shares. And eventually, instead of a team getting a million, a million and a-half dollars, every team is going to get 50 or 60 thousand dollars. Let them all in. If you're going to let 64 in, let them all in.
Give us your assessment on UCLA's chances in the tourney?
There's probably only 15 or 20 of the 64 that could possibly win it. You have to go with the team that seems to the best, and that would be Arizona, Duke, North Carolina or Kansas.
I'd like to see UCLA win it, but when you analyze the way they played against the top teams all year long. What did they do against Stanford? What did they do against Arizona? What did they do against North Carolina? What did they do against Duke? They lost. I would say if you analyze it, I don't pick them as one of the teams that will win it. They are the one I hope wins it, but I can't pick them to.
UCLA is entering the Tourney as a sixth seed and is not expected to go very far. Do you have any advice for them from the man who won a NCAA record 38 consecutive Tournament games?
Well, it's kind of an old cliché. My feeling is to always concentrate on today. The past will never change. The future can only be affected by what you do today. Don't worry about particular opponent or where you're going, concentrate on the one thing of which you can do - that is make the effort to do the best of what you're capable of.
The second part of the John Wooden interview will appear on Thursday. Among other topics, he will discuss a wide variety of hot issues in college and professional basketball, explain why he never coached in the NBA, and talk about his lasting legacy in Westwood.
Q&A: Wooden speaks about his legacy, state of basketball today
By Brent Boyd
Daily Bruin Staff
In the second segment of a two-part series, UCLA coaching legend John Wooden talks about a variety of things - ranging from his decision to turn down the NBA, to the likelihood of some of his records being broken, to his definition of an ideal basketball player.
You accomplished a lot at UCLA - both on and off the court. What are you most proud of?
I'm most proud of the fact that almost all of my players graduated and most of them have done well in almost any profession - whether it's been medicine, law, teaching, the ministry, whatever it's been - and it's not just professional basketball.
I'm very proud of that. What they did after pro basketball is more important to me than what they did during professional basketball.
When you were at UCLA, you set some incredible records - 10 championships in 12 years, seven championships in a row, 88 straight wins, 38 straight tournament wins. Of all those records, or others, which one do you think is the least likely to be broken?
Well, it's going to be very difficult for one of two - the 88-game winning streak or the seven consecutive national championships. Records are made to be broken, and if anyone said that was going to happen before it happened, you would say that would have been impossible. And it's no more impossible today than it was then in my opinion. In some ways it's easier and in some ways it is difficult - so it offsets.
You are obviously one of the best college basketball coaches of all time. I'm sure that you had chances to go to the NBA, but you never did. Why?
For a number of reasons. There's only one reason at all to go and that's money. And if you make money, by God, you're going to be unhappy. True happiness comes from things that can't be taken away from you, and all material things get away from you.
I wouldn't have liked the traveling. You're away from home, it would have been tough on family life. There are so many problems in the families of professional athletes because they're away so much. Also the coaches in the NBA, the players can get you fired.
If they don't like you, and they're a star player, they can bring about the dismissal of the coach. You're not really in control, some general managers are in control, some it's the owners, some it's both or either, and I wouldn't like that.
To say if I would like the money, yeah, I would like it, of course. But, I turned down far far more than I ever made for pro offers - if you base your happiness on the material things, then you are going to be very disappointed.
Speaking of the NBA, three Bruins will most likely get drafted next year. If you could give them one piece of advice, what would it be?
You got me thinking. There are so many things.
Well, some of the things would be to behave yourself. I think the vast majority of professional athletes should never be married. Now I'm not going to go into telling you why they shouldn't be, but the vast majority shouldn't be. I think many get carried away with the enormous amount of money they are making now. And most of them have never had that kind of money, and suddenly to have an awful lot, they're going to have an awful lot of people taking care of it. And many of them don't want to take care of it; they just want to part with it.
It's hard to lead a normal life. There are so many temptations up there. It's hard for them to be able to resist it. You need to be strong, but still not everybody can resist it.
One of those players is Kris Johnson, the son of one of your players – Marques Johnson. What is it like to see him out there?
Well, I could name you the sons of some of my players that are doctors, attorneys, or teachers - I don't care what they are, I just want to see them do well. I don't like to base everything on professional athletics because that is temporary.
I understand the life of the average professional basketball player is four and a half years. They've got long, long years after that, and they better be thinking of that. The income they're going to make in the years they are having there. They aren't going to make that income later on.
When many think of professional basketball, they think of the Dream Team. Do you think amateurs or pros should play in the next Olympic Games?
I'm very, very unhappy with the Olympics now. I know that in some ways it was never truly amateur, but I think a concerted effort was made to make it that way. I think it should be that way. I think our amateur basketball players in the United States would still win the Olympics most of the time.
But we'd have great competition. There's not much competition in basketball now, taking all the pros. I like competition, and we'd still win it most of the time. Do you have to win it all of the time? That may be one of the things there is too much thinking about. I don't like the pros. I wish they would have kept it as amateur as possible.
Now, I know you won't tell me who the best basketball player you ever coached was, but if you could take certain aspects out of certain players to make your ideal basketball player, how would you go about doing it?
I would want one that knew why he was at UCLA - and that's to get an education. That would be number one. Education must be number one. You're here to get an education and that's going to be with you all your life and your basketball will be with you a very small number of years.
Second as a player, I want one that is very courteous and polite and well- mannered and will never do something on or off the court to bring discredit to him, to his team, to his family, to his coach, to his school.
I want one that understands that defense is what usually wins championships. I want one that plays good defense, enjoys defense and understands that is what wins championships.
I want a good offensive player too – one that could pass well, one that could shoot well, one that could rebound well. I want an unselfish player at both ends of the court.
Why not take someone like Keith Wilkes (who played for the Bruins from 1972-74) and let it go at that? He's a good student, an honor student, well mannered, courteous, excellent defense and fine offense.
Now, I'm not saying he's the best player that I ever had, but you'd have to go a long ways to find a better player with whom to work.
The player of the year in college basketball is given the John R. Wooden Award. What does it mean to you to have the award named in your honor? Would you pick a winner for us?
Here, I will enlighten you a little bit. When that originated, I wanted it to be a well-rounded player. On the trophy, there are five players. One is playing defense, then the other four are on offense - which I don't particularly care for.
I wanted in the very middle of that to be one player in a cap and gown. I wanted it to go to a graduating senior. I didn't want this trophy to be for the best basketball player. I wanted it to be for the best graduating basketball player, and I went along with it, and I'm sorry I did. And they know that.
But, I did get one thing in, and they haven't followed it the way I wanted them to and that is the player who receives it must be making normal progress to his college degree, whatever year he is in.
In terms of picking a winner, no, I do not know who I would choose.
Who is the best coach in the college game today?
I would never attempt to say anyone is the best. Generally speaking I would say, "I have never seen a better one," or I would say, "He's as good as anybody else," or, "he's among the best, I could go on and on."
But, there are many great coaches, and coaches are really only teachers – in places that you have never heard of. But, they're doing a better job than many of these coaches you hear about all the time.
It's just like the Thomas Graves Elegy - one verse in there says "Full many a gem of purest ray serene, the dark unfathomed caves of ocean bear: full many a flower is born to blush unseen, and waste its sweetness on the desert air." Is the flower less beautiful because nobody sees it? Or the gem any less beautiful because it's on the bottom of the ocean and nobody sees it?
Well, now there are many coaches that way - wonderful teachers in places you have never heard of and they may be doing a better job than the more publicized coaches.
I will say without pinpointing, I have been impressed with the team play through the last number of years I have seen from Roy Williams and the University of Kansas. I think his team plays beautiful team play. I'm not saying he's the best coach at all, I just don't think I have seen anybody play better team ball.
You had so much success here; every coach from then on is kind of set up to your standard. Is it fair that they get set to that standard?
Life isn't fair. Life isn't fair in any way. The only thing that matters is to think of yourself, nothing else matters. If you let the things over which you have no control affect you, whether they are good or bad, they will affect you in only one way and that is adversity.
I used to tell my players early, "This year you are going to get praise that you don't deserve. And you're going to get praise that you deserve and you're going to be liked by everybody. You are going to get criticism at times that you deserve and criticism that you don't deserve and you won't like it in any way. But, your strength, your absolute strength as an individual is going to depend on how you react to both praise and criticism. If you take both praise and criticism with a grain of salt, it will be a great weight off your shoulders. Just make the best effort you can."
In my seven-point creed, one thing is “Take each day as it is something over which you have control." I tried to use that one - make each day your masterpiece, and I tried to get that across to the players. Do what you can, you're not doing it for somebody else. You'd like to be well thought of, of course, but to me the main thing is what you think of yourself. What others see is what you are perceived to be, you are the only one who knows what you are. Do the best you can, make mistakes, but don't make them over and over again.
Do you have any last comments to the UCLA student body?
Just to the student body, remember first of all why you're at UCLA - it is for the education and I said the same thing to my players. But support your various other activities - whether it's athletics or music or whatever.
But, whatever it is enjoy them, support them, and don't be too critical.
Criticism eats on you. Forgiveness sets you free.